25 new messages in 2 topics - digest

alt.folklore.computers
http://groups.google.com/group/alt.folklore.computers?hl=en

alt.folklore.computers@googlegroups.com

Today's topics:

* folklore indeed - 6 messages, 3 authors
http://groups.google.com/group/alt.folklore.computers/browse_thread/thread/b9477fc16d03808d?hl=en
* Newsgroups articles thread length. - 19 messages, 7 authors
http://groups.google.com/group/alt.folklore.computers/browse_thread/thread/cc5fc8a27334bbca?hl=en

==============================================================================
TOPIC: folklore indeed
http://groups.google.com/group/alt.folklore.computers/browse_thread/thread/b9477fc16d03808d?hl=en
==============================================================================

== 1 of 6 ==
Date: Tues, Dec 11 2007 3:31 am
From: jmfbahciv@aol.com

In article <KCk7j.5595$rB1.891@trnddc03>,
Larry Elmore <ljelmore@verizon.spammenot.net> wrote:
>jmfbahciv@aol.com wrote:
>> In article <475C6CE0.ECF530@yahoo.com>,
>> CBFalconer <cbfalconer@yahoo.com> wrote:
>>> jmfbahciv@aol.com wrote:
>>> .... snip ...
>>>> I'm assuming there might be a problem with the password but bloody
>>>> software masks the first entry when you're setting up the account
>>>> information. This is the single time it should not be masked...
>>>> IMO, of course.
>>> That's why, on Linux at least, you enter the initial password
>>> twice.
>>
>> I understand that technique. It's an old technique. But I am
>> the system operator by definition. It is stupid to do initial
>> setups by insisting that each line be typed twice, blindly.
>
>Actually, that seems very sensible to me.

It is not for the initial setup of a _computer system_.

> I suppose there are some
>people who've never hit the wrong key and typed something /slightly/
>different from what they thought they typed, but I'm not one of them.
>When it comes to things like passwords, "tell me twice" seems like a
>good rule.

Sigh! This is a brand new computer sysetm with a keyboard you have
never used. Double typing is going to be a problem. Mistyping
is going to be a problem. Setting the first password for access
should be done so the system owner can see what they are doing.
This is a timesharing OS where any usage requires a login unless
you configure the system as a stand alone single user system
that doesn't require a password.

You people are not thinking timesharing...you're thinking PC.

Remember that we are talking about a system owner who chose
Unix instead of an MS stand alone OS.

/BAH

== 2 of 6 ==
Date: Tues, Dec 11 2007 3:34 am
From: jmfbahciv@aol.com

In article <1bve75g5f0.fsf@babs.wb.pfeifferfamily.net>,
Joe Pfeiffer <pfeiffer@cs.nmsu.edu> wrote:
>krw <krw@att.bizzzz> writes:
>> In article <87zlwibmho.fsf@mithril.chromatico.net>,
>> cwilbur@chromatico.net says...
>> >
>> > BAH> I am almost to the point of not reading your posts. This is
>> > BAH> a first in this newsgroup.
>> >
>> > This means I'm probably, finally, starting to get through.
>> >
>> No, I think you're just through.
>
>Thanks. I was trying to think of a good response, but hadn't
>succeeded yet. That was admirable.

<GRIN> I thought it was good, too.

/BAH

== 3 of 6 ==
Date: Tues, Dec 11 2007 4:12 am
From: Anne & Lynn Wheeler

Anne & Lynn Wheeler <lynn@garlic.com> writes:
> re:
> http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2007u.html#31 Public Computers
>
> Virtualization is being used for consolidation and management ... but it
> is also being leveraged for creating virtual appliances (or what we used
> to call service virtual machines) ... which are also being characterized
> as light-weight operating systems (both the virtual machine hypervisor
> as a microkernel as well as the virtual appliance as a different kind of
> microkernel).

re:
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2007u.html#39 New, 40+ yr old, direction in operating systems

relatively trivial example is in this recent post mentioning the port of
Open Solaris to mainframe virtual machine
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2007u.html#9 Open z architecture and Linux questions

and comments about the difference between a virtual machine port and
port to running on native hardware.

a big issue is that native hardware service requirements tend to be
fairly robust EREP and RAS. This showed up in the 80s unix ports of
Amdahl UTS and also AIX/370. The observation at the time was that adding
mainframe quality EREP and RAS to the port was an effort several times
larger than the port itself.

It didn't mean that the unix port couldn't be run on the "native"
hardware, it just was that it wouldn't have met the customer (and field
service maintenance people) EREP & RAS requirements. In the virtual
machine environment, the underlying virtual machine hypervisor would
provide the underlying sophisticated EREP and RAS functions
... significantly simplifying the port.

Misc. news items:

Sine Nomine Shows Off Solaris on System z
http://www.itjungle.com/tug/tug120607-story01.html
OpenSolaris follows Linux to the mainframe
http://www.news.com/8301-13580_3-9826527-39.html
OpenSolaris follows Linux to the mainframe
http://www.zdnetasia.com/news/software/0,39044164,62035048,00.htm

Something similar could be claimed for the unix adaptation to stripped
down TSS/370 kernel for internal AT&T use. UNIX api and applications
were moved on top of highly modified TSS/370 kernel. Rather than
"straight" virtual machine adaptation, squinting, the stripped down
TSS/370 kernel could be considered a highly abstract "virtual machine
layer" (leveraging the "bare machine" EREP & RAS support in TSS/370).

misc. past posts mentioning virtual machine EREP/RAS for mainframe
unix ports:
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2001k.html#18 HP-UX will not be ported to Alpha (no surprise)exit
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2001l.html#19 mainframe question
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2004q.html#37 A Glimpse into PC Development Philosophy
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2005q.html#26 What ever happened to Tandem and NonStop OS ?
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2005s.html#34 Power5 and Cell, new issue of IBM Journal of R&D
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2006b.html#24 Seeking Info on XDS Sigma 7 APL
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2006y.html#43 Remote Tape drives
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2007.html#38 How many 36-bit Unix ports in the old days?
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2007b.html#3 How many 36-bit Unix ports in the old days?
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2007m.html#69 Operating systems are old and busted
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2007p.html#5 PL/S programming language

== 4 of 6 ==
Date: Tues, Dec 11 2007 4:20 am
From: Steve O'Hara-Smith

On Tue, 11 Dec 07 11:04:06 GMT
jmfbahciv@aol.com wrote:

> Why should your client have to type it in twice with you
> sitting there at an installation time? First boot is
> a completely different scenario than subsequent system boots.
>
> IMO, entering it twice in this situation is a security risk
> because the repetitive keystrokes can be noted.

The only time IME a password has to be typed in twice is when
setting it, the alternative would be to have the password echoed to the
screen as it is typed when setting. It's always seemed to me to be a
sensible choice on the basis that it's far easier to read a screen than the
keypresses made by a fast typist.

--
C:>WIN | Directable Mirror Arrays
The computer obeys and wins. | A better way to focus the sun
You lose and Bill collects. | licences available see
|

http://www.sohara.org/

== 5 of 6 ==
Date: Tues, Dec 11 2007 4:07 am
From: Steve O'Hara-Smith

On Tue, 11 Dec 07 11:10:33 GMT
jmfbahciv@aol.com wrote:

> In article <873auab5cc.fsf@mithril.chromatico.net>,
> Charlton Wilbur <cwilbur@chromatico.net> wrote:
> <snip>
>
> >She's just so fixated on extensive printed documentation,
>
> For Unix. Yes. That is an area that requires a lot of work.

Lessee now - on this box here there are over 4000 man pages (most
would take more than one page to print) and 30 odd info sets (many of which
are about book sized in content). I could print it all out but why bother
when it's handier as it is[1]. For linux users there are also vast numbers
of "howto" documents available on the web (the Linux Documentation Project
has a large list of them as do several other sites). Then of course a visit
to a good bookshop will reveal a large collection of books from beginner to
kernel hacker level.

These days it is far easier to find documentation by entering a few
words into a search engine and reading a few likely looking hits than it
ever was to navigate the wall of manuals at a typical mainframe
installation.

[1] I do recall a time when it was common to have a printed and bound set
of man pages at a Unix site and to delete the installed set to recover the
disc space, these days the disc space for the installed set is trivial
while the wall space for all those books is a problem.

--
C:>WIN | Directable Mirror Arrays
The computer obeys and wins. | A better way to focus the sun
You lose and Bill collects. | licences available see
|

http://www.sohara.org/

== 6 of 6 ==
Date: Tues, Dec 11 2007 4:26 am
From: jmfbahciv@aol.com

In article <20071211120742.117d6a91.steveo@eircom.net>,
Steve O'Hara-Smith <steveo@eircom.net> wrote:
>On Tue, 11 Dec 07 11:10:33 GMT
>jmfbahciv@aol.com wrote:
>
>> In article <873auab5cc.fsf@mithril.chromatico.net>,
>> Charlton Wilbur <cwilbur@chromatico.net> wrote:
>> <snip>
>>
>> >She's just so fixated on extensive printed documentation,
>>
>> For Unix. Yes. That is an area that requires a lot of work.
>
> Lessee now - on this box here there are over 4000 man pages (most
>would take more than one page to print) and 30 odd info sets (many of which
>are about book sized in content). I could print it all out but why bother
>when it's handier as it is[1]. For linux users there are also vast numbers
>of "howto" documents available on the web (the Linux Documentation Project
>has a large list of them as do several other sites). Then of course a visit
>to a good bookshop will reveal a large collection of books from beginner to
>kernel hacker level.

There could be a billion pages available with cogent and useful
information written on them. None of it is any good if they
can't be found. The organization of documentation is vitally
important. A person who needs the docs has to make some of kind
of guess when s/he tries to find it. This is where the organization
of the presentation of the knowledge is so important that I can't
stress it enough.

DEC figured this all out by trail and error. So I don't
anybody can do an objective writeup about how to reorganize
another OS' mess^W mile-high pile of documentation.

Maybe an ex-writer would be able but I only know of one who
had enough objectivity to this kind of work.
>
> These days it is far easier to find documentation by entering a few
>words into a search engine and reading a few likely looking hits than it
>ever was to navigate the wall of manuals at a typical mainframe
>installation.

Exactly. You have to know those first few words. That's the bloody
problem with Unix. Those first few words to one's self started
are not consistent over all Unix becuase it's dependent on the
flavor of the shell used.
>
>[1] I do recall a time when it was common to have a printed and bound set
>of man pages at a Unix site and to delete the installed set to recover the
>disc space, these days the disc space for the installed set is trivial
>while the wall space for all those books is a problem.

How was that doc set organized? If you needed to know something
about an operator task was there an operator's manual that covered
all computing tasks the operator might want to do?

/BAH

==============================================================================
TOPIC: Newsgroups articles thread length.
http://groups.google.com/group/alt.folklore.computers/browse_thread/thread/cc5fc8a27334bbca?hl=en
==============================================================================

== 1 of 19 ==
Date: Tues, Dec 11 2007 3:48 am
From: Esra Sdrawkcab

Evan Kirshenbaum wrote:
> Peter Moylan <peter@DIESPAMMERSDIEpmoylan.org> writes:
>
>> On 11/12/07 06:35, Rostyslaw J. Lewyckyj wrote:
>>
>>> In which case mechanistically, How long is the References: list
>>> allowed to get? At three generations per day, a list of 255
>>> references will only last about 3 months. Has anyone seen a
>>> references: list that long?
>> Most of the time, only the most recent reference is needed to
>> reconstruct the thread. The others are redundant backup. If the list
>> gets too long, there's no real harm in deleting the older
>> references.
>
> It's considered (or, at least, it used to be considered) a good idea
> to keep the first one,

At this point I thought the thread was still about water conservancy

as some threading software used the message id
> of the first article as the message id for the thread as a whole.
>
> I think most software either drops from the second or somewhere else
> in the middle.
>

== 2 of 19 ==
Date: Tues, Dec 11 2007 3:35 am
From: jmfbahciv@aol.com

In article <20071210173422.74f6ee41.steveo@eircom.net>,
Steve O'Hara-Smith <steveo@eircom.net> wrote:
>On Mon, 10 Dec 2007 11:30:18 -0600
<snip>

>> As the person who STARTED the thread "What do YOU call the # sign?",
>> do I get some kind of prize or something for it going on so long?
>
> Come back in a decade or so and see if it's still running.

Which one? The one he talked about or the new one he started? :-)

/BAH

== 3 of 19 ==
Date: Tues, Dec 11 2007 3:54 am
From: Esra Sdrawkcab

robertharvey@my-deja.com wrote:
> On 11 Dec, 00:40, Evan Kirshenbaum <kirshenb...@hpl.hp.com> wrote:
>>> Pound weight? Then I now know why archery bow poundage is marked
>>> with a # sign!
>> Interesting. I didn't realize that.
>
> I was just looking at something completely different on wikipedia and
> came across the following on the page about the "commercial at sign"
> or @
> "In Welsh it is sometimes known as a malwen or malwoden (a snail)."
>
> I thought you would like that, and it would contribute to the shedde's
> habit of thread drift [1]
>
>
> [1] Drift? More like stampede, really
>

OK then (forces self to reamin on-topic) why are there 2 vertical bars,
one broken? And has anyone EVER had reason to press SysRq?

== 4 of 19 ==
Date: Tues, Dec 11 2007 3:39 am
From: jmfbahciv@aol.com

In article <20071210173422.74f6ee41.steveo@eircom.net>,
Steve O'Hara-Smith <steveo@eircom.net> wrote:
>On Mon, 10 Dec 2007 11:30:18 -0600
>Josh Norther <phonics@yahoo.com> wrote:
>
>>
>>
>> Peter Moylan wrote:
>>
>> > On 10/12/07 17:10, Peter Moylan wrote:
>> > > On 10/12/07 16:10, Hatunen wrote:
>> > >> On Mon, 10 Dec 2007 13:17:46 +1100, Peter Moylan
>> > >> <peter@DIESPAMMERSDIEpmoylan.org> wrote:
>> > >>
>> > >>> I've just noticed that this thread is exactly a month old. It
>> > >>> seems like years.
>> > >>
>> > >> What thread? My newsreader separates article with different names.
>> > >>
>> > > I've never bothered to set things up that way; it seemed more logical
>> > > to keep threads as threads. No doubt there's an option somewhere in
>> > > my newsreader (Thunderbird) to break threads with any title change,
>> > > but I've never even looked for it.
>> > >
>> > Ah, wait a minute, I see now that I missed your point. You wouldn't even
>> > know which thread I was talking about unless you went to the
>> > complication of manually tracing the references.
>> >
>> > It's the one whose original Subject was "What do YOU call the # sign?"
>>
>> As the person who STARTED the thread "What do YOU call the # sign?",
>> do I get some kind of prize or something for it going on so long?
>
> Come back in a decade or so and see if it's still running.
>
One thing I like about a.f.c. is that, no matter how long the
thread has run, the posts are 99.9999% interesting.

/BAH

== 5 of 19 ==
Date: Tues, Dec 11 2007 3:40 am
From: jmfbahciv@aol.com

In article <Xns9A02DFA169A4whhvans@news.albasani.net>,
HVS <usenet@REMOVETHISwhhvs.co.uk> wrote:
>On 10 Dec 2007, John Varela wrote
>
>> On Mon, 10 Dec 2007 05:51:29 -0500, Peter Moylan wrote
>> (in article <13lq6h6rcttbjac@corp.supernews.com>):
>>
>>> Bob Cunningham has repeatedly argued that we should change the
>>> Subject each time the topic changes. The reason why [1] that
>>> doesn't happen is, I suspect,
>>
>>> because the thread drift is a matter of gradual evolution
>>> rather than punctuated equilibrium. Nobody can pin down the
>>> exact point at which the change was sufficiently large to
>>> warrant a new Subject (or even a new
>> thread).
>>
>> Often what happens is that some article suggests the drifting
>> topic, two or three people respond to the drift, thus producing
>> two or three subthreads on the drift topic, and so it's already
>> too late to rename the subthreads.
>
>Trying to control thread-drift in Usenet is like trying to teach cats
>to line-dance.
>
Nah, men to clean up after themselves.

/BAH

== 6 of 19 ==
Date: Tues, Dec 11 2007 4:02 am
From: HVS

On 11 Dec 2007, wrote
> In article <20071210173422.74f6ee41.steveo@eircom.net>,
> Steve O'Hara-Smith <steveo@eircom.net> wrote:
>> On Mon, 10 Dec 2007 11:30:18 -0600
>> Josh Norther <phonics@yahoo.com> wrote:

>>> As the person who STARTED the thread "What do YOU call the #
>>> sign?", do I get some kind of prize or something for it going
>>> on so long?
>>
>> Come back in a decade or so and see if it's still running.
>>
> One thing I like about a.f.c. is that, no matter how long the
> thread has run, the posts are 99.9999% interesting.

Surely a higher-level medal is warranted for starting a long thread
in a single group, rather than as a cross-post, no?

--
Cheers, Harvey
CanEng and BrEng, indiscriminately mixed

== 7 of 19 ==
Date: Tues, Dec 11 2007 4:01 am
From: Guy King

The message <13lrehcjavpso64@corp.supernews.com>
from Andy Burns <usenet.july2007@adslpipe.co.uk> contains these words:

> > There were side diversions into pling and bang!

> wot no shriek?

Is that a green symbol with sticky-out ears?

--
Skipweasel
Eagles may soar, but weasels don't get sucked into jet engines.

== 8 of 19 ==
Date: Tues, Dec 11 2007 4:05 am
From: Frank Erskine

On Tue, 11 Dec 2007 02:25:04 -0800 (PST), robertharvey@my-deja.com
wrote:

>On 11 Dec, 09:57, Esra Sdrawkcab <ad...@127.0.0.1> wrote:
>> And the number of points on and orientation of a star (phnoe, kybd,
>> claculator
>
>Not to mention the scandal of the 1970s: inversion of the number key
>layout between phones and computers. Both (allegedly) the result of
>ergonomic research. If true, that casts rather a cloud over
>ergonomics....
>
The thought behind the differences between the calculator and phone
layouts was apparently that a phone number (or at least the local part
of it) is thought of as a sort of 'word' whilst digits being tapped
into a claculator are thought of as, well, digits.
The GPO did a lot of experimental work on this prior to the
introduction of keypad phones, using lots of 'guinea-pigs' to tap in
phone numbers.

--
Frank Erskine

== 9 of 19 ==
Date: Tues, Dec 11 2007 3:50 am
From: jmfbahciv@aol.com

In article <20071210141224.d8798145.steveo@eircom.net>,
Steve O'Hara-Smith <steveo@eircom.net> wrote:
>On Mon, 10 Dec 07 12:04:09 GMT
>jmfbahciv@aol.com wrote:
>
>> Sigh! Ten seconds is not long enough. I do not need the generator
>> to run if the power grid has a hiccup of a couple hours. You people
>> keep thinking of instantaneous gratification. I'm thinking of
>> a serious event. Like an ice storm that will keep the grid down
>> for weeks. Or a hurricane which usually lasts a week. Or a moby
>> snow storm which can keep all traffic (thus fuel supply) from
>> being on the road for a week or more, if another storm happens before
>> the first is cleaned up.
>>
>> I want to control when the backup system runs. A lot of appliances
>> suck power automatically 7x24. I don't want to waste precious
>> power on that kind of stuff.
>
> Ah well that's different. If you don't mind everything going off
>when the power goes, manually switching things off,

Yes. If it's automatic how will you know that the grid is down?
YOu have to know if you're going to be in trouble so you plan.

> starting the generator
>and throwing a switch to switch over to generator power. Then that should
>be available and simpler than the usual seamless takeover designs that are
>the norm.

People's attitudes is that they should be able to live the same way
no matter what kinds of messes are in their backyard. This is, not
only abjectly stupid, but dangerous to community and nation.

/BAH

== 10 of 19 ==
Date: Tues, Dec 11 2007 3:56 am
From: jmfbahciv@aol.com

In article <1099.932T983T10174096@kltpzyxm.invalid>,
"Charlie Gibbs" <cgibbs@kltpzyxm.invalid> wrote:
>In article <0001HW.C37F196E01DF861DB019F94F@News.Individual.NET>,
>que.sara.sara@google's.e-mail.thingy (Sara Lorimer) writes:
>
>> Robert Bannister wrote:
>>
>>> Doesn't everyone have beer fridge? Whenever I feel a need to buy a
>>> new fridge (about every 20 years), the old one becomes the new beer
>>> fridge.
>>
>> Canadians are being asked to get rid of theirs, or at least to get
>> newer ones, to combat global warming.
>>
>> <http://www.cbc.ca/consumer/story/2007/11/30/beer-fridge.html>
>
>Yeah, right. I wonder if anyone has worked out how long it'll take
>for the reduced energy consumption of all those new fridges to make
>up for the energy it cost to build and distribute them.

A lot of that work used to be posted in sci.physics but it has
degenerated into personal pissing matches over the last year.
Very little science is allowed to leak in.

>
>Conservation is encouraged only when it doesn't work. Those who
>fail to consume enough - and conservationists are among the worst
>offenders - are traitors to The Economy.

People simply have priorities upside down. There was a news
report this morning about some political committee ANDed with
some medical people who are supposed to produce a plan if
there is a flu pandemic in the state and what to do if all
hospital beds were full. It was reported that the word
quarantine was never uttered. I simply don't know why
people aren't thinking.

/BAH

== 11 of 19 ==
Date: Tues, Dec 11 2007 4:17 am
From: "Dave Larrington"

In news:NTu7j.7834$h35.556@newsfe2-gui.ntli.net,
Esra Sdrawkcab <admin@127.0.0.1> tweaked the Babbage-Engine to tell us:

> OK then (forces self to reamin on-topic) why are there 2 vertical
> bars, one broken? And has anyone EVER had reason to press SysRq?

All the time (when it's got its "Print Screen" hat on)

--
Dave Larrington
<http://www.legslarry.beerdrinkers.co.uk>
The elder stoat leads, in all circumstances.

== 12 of 19 ==
Date: Tues, Dec 11 2007 4:08 am
From: jmfbahciv@aol.com

In article <w9zmysixvgp.fsf@zipcon.net>, kkt <kkt@zipcon.net> wrote:
>jmfbahciv@aol.com writes:
>
>> I keep speculating that the advent of fat kids has to do
>> with fake sugar rather than anything else.
>
>They spend way too much time sitting on their butts watching TV,
>playing videogames, or (note amazing return to the nominal topic of
>a.f.c!) playing on computers.

I don't think that's it.
>
>It doesn't help that when they're watching TV they get hit with ads
>for sugar-overload foods.

In this neighborhood the parents don't allow the kids to play outside.
It is not kids' nature to stay indoors....Caveat: I wasn't a city kid.

/BAH

>
>-- Patrick

== 13 of 19 ==
Date: Tues, Dec 11 2007 4:10 am
From: jmfbahciv@aol.com

In article <20071210192051.9ab6c865.steveo@eircom.net>,
Steve O'Hara-Smith <steveo@eircom.net> wrote:
>On Mon, 10 Dec 2007 12:30:28 -0600
>stanb45@dial.pipex.com (Stan Barr) wrote:
>
>> On Sun, 9 Dec 2007 23:01:26 -0500, krw <krw@att.bizzzz> wrote:
>> >
>> >The tax in the US is quite high too, but is built into the wholesale
>> >price of the beer. I'm sure soda has a higher margin than beer than;
>> >likely higher than anything else on the planet. OTOH, I've never
>> >seen anyone drink a couple of dozen pints of Coke in a day. ;-)
>>
>> It's always puzzled my that, in those beer-drinking contests, I could
>> down a pint of beer (UK 20 fl.oz. pint) in one go in a very few seconds,
>> but if I try the same trick with, say, Coke I can only get part-way
>> down the glass and have to stop!
>
> I think it's fizzically impossible to down a pint of coke.
>
That one fell flat.

/BAH

== 14 of 19 ==
Date: Tues, Dec 11 2007 4:11 am
From: jmfbahciv@aol.com

In article <bk4rl3l21fq4r9avs6i6sflvc0o8toirjp@4ax.com>,
Helge Nareid <hn.v06@hnareid.me.uk> wrote:
>On Sat, 8 Dec 2007 15:10:09 -0500, krw <krw@att.bizzzz> wrote:
>
>>In article <fje9ct$8qk_008@s811.apx1.sbo.ma.dialup.rcn.com>,
>>jmfbahciv@aol.com says...
>>> In article <sf2bjf.ula.ln@eden.reistad.name>,
>>> Morten Reistad <first@last.name> wrote:
>>> >In article <MPG.21c26f734dddd78a98aba6@news.individual.net>,
>>> >krw <krw@att.bizzzz> wrote:
>>> <snip>
>>>
>>> >I just observed that some of the beer in the fridge was past the
>>> >"use before" date.
>>>
>>> What?!! Beer has an expiration date? When did that happen?
>
>Beer does in these parts (Europe), as do any other products intended
>for human consumption, up to and including bottled water.
>
>Beer is a product with a limited lifetime. Depending, of course, on
>the type of beer and the storage conditions. The original IPA (India
>Pale Ale) for instance, was designed to survive the long sea journey
>from Britain to India, hence it had a high alcohol content and was
>strongly hopped.
>
>>AB gets around the ugly expiration date by printing the "born on"
>>date on the bottom.
>
>IMHO AB does not make any product which even remotely resembles beer.

Americans, who have not been to Europe, won't understand. I sure didn't
until I drank a beer in the Netherlands.

/BAH

== 15 of 19 ==
Date: Tues, Dec 11 2007 4:31 am
From: Frank Erskine

On Tue, 11 Dec 2007 12:17:16 -0000, "Dave Larrington"
<smert.spamionam@privacy.net> wrote:

>In news:NTu7j.7834$h35.556@newsfe2-gui.ntli.net,
>Esra Sdrawkcab <admin@127.0.0.1> tweaked the Babbage-Engine to tell us:
>
>> OK then (forces self to reamin on-topic) why are there 2 vertical
>> bars, one broken? And has anyone EVER had reason to press SysRq?
>
>All the time (when it's got its "Print Screen" hat on)

What about the "Scroll Lock" and "Pause Break" keys? Do they do
anything useful in RL?

--
Frank Erskine

== 16 of 19 ==
Date: Tues, Dec 11 2007 4:13 am
From: jmfbahciv@aol.com

In article <AYg7j.16027$vt2.4697@bignews8.bellsouth.net>,
"Rostyslaw J. Lewyckyj" <urjlew@bellsouth.net> wrote:
>jmfbahciv@aol.com wrote:
>> In article <m3fxyan1sn.fsf@garlic.com>,
>> Anne & Lynn Wheeler <lynn@garlic.com> wrote:
>>> jmfbahciv@aol.com writes:
>>>> You left it on the clothes and boots which was taken off before
>>>> you entered the house. You washed up before you went into the
>>>> house. The reason for the bath was to you were clean when
>>>> you put on your Sunday-go-to-meeting clothes. Clothes were never
>>>> worn once and then washed.
>>> re:
>>> http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2007u.html#28 What do YOU call the # sign?
>>>
>>> also just out of the picture was the front porch and the boot scrapper
>>> next to porch ... i.e. used to scrape a lot of the mud off of shoes
>>> before entering
>>
>> And not just mud. Was yours embedded in a slab of concrete?
>>
>> /BAH
>>
>Did you enter the house with the un-scraped residue still on your
>footwear?

Of course. That was immediately followed by the woman of the houes
chasing me back outside with on my backside.

/BAH

== 17 of 19 ==
Date: Tues, Dec 11 2007 4:17 am
From: jmfbahciv@aol.com

In article <m3bq8ymu89.fsf@garlic.com>,
Anne & Lynn Wheeler <lynn@garlic.com> wrote:
>jmfbahciv@aol.com writes:
>> And not just mud. Was yours embedded in a slab of concrete?
>
>previous posts:
>http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2007u.html#25 What do YOU call the # sign?
>http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2007u.html#27 What do YOU call the # sign?
>http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2007u.html#28 What do YOU call the # sign?
>
>well some barnyard stuff ... over the years ... mud scapper nailed to a
>timber and latter bolted to concrete block.

Some? You must not have had chickens nor geese walking around.
>
>there was long haul east/west railroad not too far away ... and every
>other year or so ... they came thru doing track maintenance. cast-off
>railroad ties were still useable for lots of functions.

Yea. Old tubs were useful, too.

>
>also picked up some other stuff at railroad auction ... my uncle did
>part-time house moving ... and jacks they used for moving tracks around
>could be adapted to house moving. i remember lightweight cast aluminum
>around 60-70 lbs and larger steel jacks around 120 lbs. tamping bar also
>useable as jack handle and misc. other functions.

The aluminum didn't bend?

/BAH

== 18 of 19 ==
Date: Tues, Dec 11 2007 4:29 am
From:

On 10 Dec,
coj <c_o_jones_99@hotmail.com> wrote:

> I see Wikipedia has a page calling it the "number sign", I'm sure they
> are right as always.
> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Number_sign

That's only in leftpondia. The krect one this side is No.

--
Braïn D [13435]
[13435]Change lycos to yahoo to reply.

== 19 of 19 ==
Date: Tues, Dec 11 2007 4:29 am
From: jmfbahciv@aol.com

In article <Xns9A037A6AA51CBwhhvans@news.albasani.net>,
HVS <usenet@REMOVETHISwhhvs.co.uk> wrote:
>On 11 Dec 2007, wrote
>> In article <20071210173422.74f6ee41.steveo@eircom.net>,
>> Steve O'Hara-Smith <steveo@eircom.net> wrote:
>>> On Mon, 10 Dec 2007 11:30:18 -0600
>>> Josh Norther <phonics@yahoo.com> wrote:
>
>>>> As the person who STARTED the thread "What do YOU call the #
>>>> sign?", do I get some kind of prize or something for it going
>>>> on so long?
>>>
>>> Come back in a decade or so and see if it's still running.
>>>
>> One thing I like about a.f.c. is that, no matter how long the
>> thread has run, the posts are 99.9999% interesting.
>
>Surely a higher-level medal is warranted for starting a long thread
>in a single group, rather than as a cross-post, no?

No. Anybody who does with that goal in mind should be shot.

/BAH

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